Dr. Alisa Whyte: Most people don’t actually have a communication problem. They have a relationship-with-conflict problem. What if the very thing you have been avoiding in your life, the tension, the disagreement, the uncomfortable conversations, is actually the doorway to deeper connection, stronger leadership, and real intimacy? Because today’s guest is about to challenge everything you thought you knew about conflict. She is not here to help you avoid it. She is here to teach you how to use it. Welcome back to Mindset Mastery Moments. I’m your host, Dr. Alisa, the number one mindset disruptor. Today, we are not playing surface level. We are going into the rooms most people avoid: conflict, intimacy, emotion, tension, and leadership under pressure. Because let’s be real, you do not rise in life avoiding discomfort. You rise by learning how to navigate it. Joining me is Anna Lecat. Anna brings over 25 years of global leadership and entrepreneurship experience, specializing in intimacy, conflict resolution, and embodied leadership. She is a speaker, facilitator, and thought leader working across international leadership networks. She has a book coming out called Loving Conflict. She flips the script on how we see tension, not as something to fix, but as something to practice. She blends psychology, cross-cultural insight, and even tango into how we understand connection, trust, and human dynamics. Anna, I am excited to have this conversation with you. Everyone who knows me knows that when it comes to relationships, I love to talk about it. And there is no relationship without the big word: conflict. We welcome you to the show. Tell us who you are in your own words, what you do, and why you do it.
Anna Lecat: Thank you so much for having me. You did a great job introducing me, thank you. I am originally from Ukraine, and I have lived through three different immigrations. I moved to China when I was 17, learned Mandarin, and I speak Mandarin fluently without any accent. Then I moved to the United States, to San Francisco, and built another business there. Now I live in my third country, France. I live in Paris. I speak French, English, Russian, Ukrainian, and Mandarin, and I work in all those languages. I travel around the world, give workshops, and teach people how to conflict better so they can have cohesive, collaborative teams and better relationships.
Dr. Alisa Whyte: Wow, that is awesome. One thing we can count on is that there will be change, and with change comes conflict. So let’s start here because this is bold. You do not teach people how to avoid conflict. You teach them how to love it. That sounds a little bit crazy probably to a lot of people. So break that down. What are we getting wrong about conflict, Anna?
Anna Lecat: I think we all know how to avoid conflict because many of us grew up in families, societies, and cultures where we were taught to avoid conflict. I don’t know about you and what it was like in your family, but many families teach people that if you love someone, you stay quiet.
Dr. Alisa Whyte: They did. Yes, same here.
Anna Lecat: Exactly. Most cultures I have been in teach something similar. Being in conflict, being in a tough conversation, is very uncomfortable for us. We get flooded with emotions. We get triggered, upset, angry. So there is additional discomfort. Not only were we not taught how to do it, we were taught not to do it. We are also not used to being with other people while being upset, angry, sad, or scared. However, I think each of us knows deep inside, if we think back to deep, hard conversations we have had, how much more attachment they can create with the other person. If we go through it and survive it, if we are able to stay kind to each other and to ourselves, stay curious, open-minded, and listen well, we can resolve so many issues. The friendship grows, the attachment grows. Every tough conversation we survive becomes part of the safety net we can fall into when things get hard, like friends would. And teams that do have conflicts, survive them, and thrive afterward, are much more collaborative. There is more innovation. They are more connected.
Dr. Alisa Whyte: Yes, it brings us closer.
Anna Lecat: Exactly.
Dr. Alisa Whyte: What I’m hearing you say is that because of the uncomfortable feeling, we tend to avoid conflict. And of course that is probably why we were taught to avoid it, because our ancestors, our parents, grandparents, and so forth, knew the unsettled discomfort. But I have to say, the relief and connection that comes after it, even when it is not favorable, is powerful. Once we have the tools and actually embrace that uncomfortable feeling, there is such a big relief and intimate connection that comes with it. So my question for you is: when did you realize conflict was not the problem, but avoidance actually was? Where were you?
Anna Lecat: I understood it early on, when I was in middle school. There was a little boy in our class who was bullied by other kids, and nobody helped him. Neither did I, because I was afraid to become the next target. There was this group of bullies at school. They were ostracized, nobody talked to them, and teachers were afraid of them. One day, I was watching them beat up this boy, and I thought, okay, I have to do something. Something has to be done. I couldn’t stand between them and the boy. I didn’t have that kind of courage. What I decided to do was go and talk to them. So I asked them, “Do you want help with homework?” I became their friend. I went to their houses, met their families, and helped them with their homework. Little by little, from being bullies, they became just boys with stories: boys who were sometimes hungry, misunderstood, scared, abused at home, and desperate to connect and belong. As they got to know me, they also got to know this little boy, and they stopped bullying him.
Dr. Alisa Whyte: Yes.
Anna Lecat: We are still friends now. I still stay in touch with the boys, and they are still friends with the boy they were bullying. There I realized that because I was curious about them, instead of putting them in the box of “bullies, unacceptable, afraid, do not talk to,” I asked, “Who are they?” I went into the conflict, into the tough spot and the hard conversation. Because I was open, I was able to see them beyond their labels and build something bigger than what we had before. I understood it then. Later, as I moved from country to country and built several global companies, managing large multinational and multiethnic teams, I kept noticing that when different cultures work together, you have to have difficult conversations. You cannot make assumptions. Nonverbal cues are different in every culture. Someone shakes their head this way, and in some cultures it is yes, in others it is no. I work a lot with Asian people, and many cultures in Asia do not do eye contact. It is not polite to look someone in the eye. In Western cultures, if we do not look people in the eye, we do not trust them. There are so many subtleties that unless we spell them out, unless we ask questions curiously and open-mindedly, we just assume, and then we cannot work together or collaborate. I kept noticing that. And because of my character, I get curious. I want clarity. I am afraid of my own blind spots.
Dr. Alisa Whyte: Yes. So you address them head on, ahead of time.
Anna Lecat: Exactly. I have always been very transparent with people. I will say, “Oh, I don’t understand. There was a pause right now before you answered. Can I ask why?” Or if I feel that somebody is angry or irritated in a conversation with me, I will ask, “I feel irritation there. Is it something I said? Can I take it back so we can get back to where we were? We were vibing. We were good here.”
Dr. Alisa Whyte: I love that. You remind me of myself because when I was in elementary school, I would literally get into the space of conflict and be like, “Okay, why are you fighting? Stop it. You are hurting her or him.” Then I would ask, “What happened?” They would tell me, and I would think, why do they trust me? I just posted about that on YouTube because I was talking about how people would come to me. Whenever I saw children like myself fighting, I would address it and try to tell them, “That is not a good reason to fight someone. You shouldn’t hit someone for that. You should go tell the teacher. You know the rules.” Then someone would say, “No, don’t tell.” So I would say, “Okay, tell them you’re sorry,” because that is what I knew back then. Those were the coping words we had: listen, make it better, stop it first, and then say you are sorry. Once you say sorry, it is good. And then we would all go play together. As an adult growing up, I always felt that if people just listened to the other person and realized, “I might not agree with you, but that is how you feel,” we would find ways to work around it. Why can’t we just all go back and play like kids? But it is not that simple, right?
Anna Lecat: I love it. And I actually think it is that simple. It is just that our play is different. The content of the play is different as adults, but it is still the same. We can agree to disagree. When I meet somebody who has a very different point of view from me, my assumption is not that I am right and they are wrong. It is that I have this opinion and you have this opinion. Now what I want to know is why you have this opinion. I am genuinely curious because maybe I do not have enough information. Maybe I will learn something new. I will definitely learn something new. As long as I understand where you are coming from and you understand where I am coming from, we can go play together. If we are from different political parties, or different sides of the street, or different religions, it is okay. We can still create art together, build a project together, do some service together, walk our dogs together, or play tennis. There are things we can still do, whatever play is for us, even if we are on different sides of whatever we decided to argue about.
Dr. Alisa Whyte: I agree with that so much. One thing I get to do in the world is meet so many people from across the globe. We have our differences, and there are times when my guests and I have different perspectives on an issue or topic, and we never get angry. We still have our bond after the show. That is why I feel like my podcast guests are very special people in the world, because we understand that you are going to be different. I have siblings who were born from the same mother and father, raised in the same home at the same time, and yet we see the same issues that occurred in the home very differently. We can say, “No, that is not what happened,” and another one says, “No, what really happened was…” Then we laugh about it, and we still love and support each other. Even with a romantic partner, you are never going to agree on 100% of anything, but you have to work together to maintain that relationship. So conflict is necessary. What I am hearing you say is that conflict does not break relationships. Mismanaged conflict does. And the mindset we already have embedded about conflict is what causes the problem. I want to ask you about something you said, that most people think they want more, but they actually want deeper connection. Can you tell us what you mean by that?
Anna Lecat: Most people want to be seen, loved, and understood, and they want to have a sense of belonging. It does not matter where they come from, what culture, what country, or what political or religious belief. What does it mean to be connected with someone else? It means that I feel fully seen by you, seen, loved, and accepted by you. How can you give me that experience? If I do not show you who I am, if I do not show you all my cards, if I do not tell you what I believe in, what my purpose is, and what my values are, you cannot really provide that experience to me. And vice versa. When we start disclosing to other people who we truly are, it will lead to discomfort because we are so different. You said something brilliant just now that is very important for everybody to remember: even in the same family, siblings are different. We can come from the same social background, religion, and street and still have major differences because our circumstances shape us. There is also what we inherited from people in our family. So remembering that and still being able to give each other that experience of deep connection takes skills. Some of us can do it better than others, but overall it is just practice. That is why I bring the body into this. It is very important to remember that this is not just something we think about. It is something we practice, like exercise. There are skills of staying present. Noticing in our body: okay, right now I am angry, I am hungry, I am feeling lonely, I do not feel loved. Are you having a conflict right now because you are not okay? Go eat, go rest. Can you stay present? You are in conflict with yourself to begin with if you keep ignoring what your body is telling you.
Dr. Alisa Whyte: Literally.
Anna Lecat: Exactly. In tango, we say it takes two to tango. Usually people assume it takes two people, but actually it takes two connections: one with yourself and another with the other person. We can only be truly connected with each other, in dance or in life, if we have a connection with ourselves, with our body, our emotions, our history, our biases, our ideas, and then are able to see the other person for who they are without assumptions and stereotypes, and truly listen to them.
Dr. Alisa Whyte: Wow, that is so good. I love that because we always use the phrase “it takes two to tango.” We are going to dive more into embodiment later, but I want to ask you this question because you also said that intimacy is something we create, not chase. Walk us through really connecting on an intimate level. I want to challenge our listeners, so I am going to give you a little assignment here. Talk to us from a parent-child perspective, from the perspective of romantic partners, and then bring it to our corporate professional space as well. What does intimacy look like, and how can we create it?
Anna Lecat: Intimacy is the experience of seeing and being seen by the other person. We are not talking about romantic intimacy here. We are not talking about physical intimacy, though it can include that too. People think intimacy is only that, and that is okay, it is also that. But it is a much bigger term. Being intimate with someone means being very close with someone. We all yearn for that. We all long for the feeling of being intimate with other people because we have been seen, acknowledged, and we have the feeling of belonging. When we are with other people, it is about how authentic we can be while being connected with another person. Back to tango, I am connected with myself and with you. We can do that with our kids. We can do it with our romantic partners. We can build that kind of relationship, and we can certainly do it in the corporate world. I think it is very important to do that in the corporate world because what is the point? We spend so much time at work. If we do not have that kind of connection with the people we work with, we cannot really build and collaborate together. Intimacy is built by having hard conversations together and not breaking each other’s hearts while doing it. That is why I teach how to fight kindly. We fight. I am not saying stop fighting for what you believe in, for what you want. If you have an idea in your company, do not stop. Go for it. Insist on what you want. However, can you do that while staying kind to other people? In my workshops, we do this exercise at the very beginning where we look at each other and recognize somebody else. My five-year-old is right here. My heart is here. So if you are having a tough conversation with me, don’t break my heart. Listen to me. Listen to how I am expressing myself. Respect me. Ask curious questions. The key here is our listening skill, and that is a separate skill that needs to be worked on and practiced, especially in Western society because we all go really fast. We think it is important to have a fast conversation. We need to be productive, so we frequently talk over each other. We do not let each other finish sentences. I am not calling that listening. I am talking about this: can I listen to you without preparing what I am going to say? The practice is very simple. Can you let the other person finish their sentence, even when at the end of the sentence they cannot find that last word? We are usually so helpful and say, “You want to say that, right?”
Dr. Alisa Whyte: Yes, I do it.
Anna Lecat: You are not alone. We are in a hurry. For one year, I practiced this. I told myself, “I am not going to finish anybody’s sentence for one year.” It was painful. So painful. I kept thinking, what is going on here? When are they going to finish? But you know what I found out? Every time I did not finish somebody’s sentence and let that pause be, while they were looking for that word, I breathed and looked at them, and they said a different word than the one I was going to give them. Which means that if I cannot find that word and you give me a word, I might just say, “Okay, fine,” because clearly she is in a hurry, so let’s go.
Dr. Alisa Whyte: Wow. I am taking that in because now I am putting myself on the one-year challenge. I would not lie to you. That is something I can work on, and I know it would make me better. So let’s get practical because people are listening right now thinking, “Okay, this sounds really good, but what should I actually do when these emotions rise?” How do you stay grounded when you are triggered? Because a lot of times, they have made me mad. They have overstepped a boundary. They have hurt my feelings. How do I really stay grounded when I am triggered?
Anna Lecat: I think there is another misunderstanding in our culture, that we should not be angry. There is a book called Good Anger. Anger is not bad. Anger means your value was stepped on or your boundary was crossed. Anger is very important information. The more we show people our anger and translate it to them, the more we feel seen. Let’s imagine you get upset in a conversation because somebody said something unacceptable to you or crossed a boundary. Usually, anger is there for a good reason. What I would do when I get angry is say, “Okay, I am feeling extremely angry right now. It is hard for me to talk. Can we talk about this? Because I am super curious about my anger.” Every time I am angry, I ask myself, “What happened? What just happened?” It gives me information about myself. It is a mirror into what is going on. I think when you said that, it made me angry because… And then I go into because. Most of our anger is not because of what happened now. I will give you an example. I get really angry when someone tells me what to do. If I am driving a car and somebody is sitting next to me telling me how to drive while I am the driver, I want to stop right there on the highway and say, “I can’t focus.” My anger overflows. I get flooded. Several times, I noticed it. It could be somebody I love sitting next to me, my mother, somebody very important to me, and they have an opinion about how I drive. Flooded. So every time, I became curious. What is going on for me there? I went to therapy and understood where it is coming from. It comes from when I was very young. I was brought up to be an independent, strong woman. Don’t tell me what to do. Now, when I drive and someone is next to me, before we start driving, I give them the blueprint of how to succeed with me. I say, “There is this thing I have. I am working on it. I am not giving up. I get super triggered when somebody tells me what to do when I am driving. It comes from…” I show people my cards. I am working on it. It is not like forever I am going to be this person. “Can you please be kind to me so that we safely get where we are going? Either you drive, if you cannot be that kind of passenger, because some people cannot sit there and not tell drivers what to do. So if you cannot be that kind of passenger, why don’t you drive? Or just sit there quietly and don’t tell me what to do.” So when you get triggered, analyze it. Understand where it is coming from, and then show people your cards. Say, “This is a trigger. Let’s work on it together, if that is possible for you.”
Dr. Alisa Whyte: I love that. I practice that in my life as much as I can. I say it all the time: get curious. That has been my word. If you stay like a kid and ask, “But why? But why?” you are always going to get more information. Some people do not have the information about themselves even when you ask, so it comes down to you being curious about yourself first and then being able to demonstrate it. I love that you do that. It is a blueprint. One of the things I enjoy is when someone says that to me. Let’s say they do not even realize it, they are not yet accountable, and they have not been able to give me the blueprint. When I see them do something, I might say, “Oh, you get really struck by that, don’t you?” They say, “Yes, I can’t stand it when people do that.” And I say, “I understand.” Instead of thinking, “Let’s throw Anna away. I am never getting in a car with Anna again,” I can see what is happening. Anna is a really great driver. It is just that the woman in the back cannot let Anna drive the car because she needs to be in control of what other people do because that is her own childhood journey. For Anna, she does not want to be told what to do. Both of them can be triggered by the same thing. For me, I might say, “I don’t want to go driving with Anna and Lisa together.” I have been in situations where I have had friends and thought, “I am not ever going out with you all together again, but I will go out with you separately because you do something together that does not work.” The point is observing other people and seeing where they are. Again, you give us the pointer of being curious and asking questions. Saying, “Hey, Anna, I notice you get really upset every time I give my opinion about something. I’m not sure if you are noticing that. How can we work with it?” You might be defensive. You might say, “Me? I don’t do that.” And I might say, “Well, last time and the time before, it happened. Is it okay if we talk about it now, or do you want to talk about it later? I can see you are defensive, and sometimes it is best for me to step back.” And you might say, “No, let’s talk about it. Let’s address it.” Then I can say, “I know you are not doing this intentionally, but this has happened a lot, and it makes me uncomfortable.” I have not had anyone who did not hear me out and say, “Oh, I’m sorry I am doing that. I didn’t know. I am going to watch it.” Then we move forward. We worked on it, and we are good. We are clear. We are on the same page because we both understand that moment. What are your thoughts on that process?
Anna Lecat: I think clarity is kind. Brené Brown said that clarity is kind. Being clear is important. I think it is great not only to disclose what is going on for me, but to be open about why I am the way I am. Telling each other the stories of our lives is where intimacy lies. Not just, “This annoys me,” but, “This annoys me because I come from here, and this is what happened to me, and that is why I am the way I am, and I am working on it.” That creates intimacy. You are seeing me now. Most of the time, the issues will melt, or at least they will not be so harsh because we just created that net. We just saw each other, so we trust each other more. The more we see each other, the more we trust each other, and then we can rely on that trust when things get hard between us.
Dr. Alisa Whyte: I love that. That is a great dimension to put there for this segment. Don’t just tell them what you are. Share the why behind it, especially if you know. Would you advise us that when we are feeling those emotions, we go through the curiosity step about what we are feeling to get beneath the why, so we can possibly share it with the person?
Anna Lecat: I think it is fascinating, especially with big emotions, to find out why we are having those emotions, especially if they are uncomfortable. If you have an uncomfortable emotion over and over again, check it out. Look inside and see where it is coming from because you will possibly have less discomfort once you understand it. There is therapy for that. There are all kinds of modalities for understanding our emotions. And also just talking with our friends and saying, “Hey, I noticed I get angry here all the time. Do you also have that?” Another aspect of sharing with others, even if we do not know where it is coming from, is that there can be a moment where if I share with you what is going on with me and you say, “I also have that,” it feels amazing that I am not alone. I immediately stop thinking, “Something is wrong with me because only I have that emotion when this happens.” The intensity gets lower once I know that you and I share that.
Dr. Alisa Whyte: Yes. I want to ask you to speak to the leader or manager who is working with a team. I recently worked with a team where there was the manager, the staff, and the clients. I was doing some conflict resolution because I was working on processes and operations procedures, but conflict came up around why things were not working. I want you to speak to that manager who said, “I am not here to build a relationship,” because I was sharing that you want to connect with each client and each staff member to understand what makes them tick. She said, “I am not here to build a relationship with anybody. I am here to get this job done.” Speak to someone who may be consciously or unconsciously taking that approach, who thinks, “I don’t have to have a relationship with you. I just need you to do what I say.” Talk to that leader or manager about what they are getting and what they are not going to get.
Anna Lecat: Thank you. I have a lot of respect for people like that, and I totally get it. They want to get things done. They want people to be accountable and responsible for their roles. I would say to that manager that they are having relationships with people anyway. It is just that the relationship they are having is not deliberate. Saying, “I don’t want to have a relationship with someone,” then stay at home. But you are not staying at home. You have a job, and you have people working for you or with you. So you have a relationship with everyone you interact with. It is just not a deliberate relationship. You are not building it deliberately. You are not building attachment, connection, or the trust you need so that they follow your orders or guidance, listen to you, and respect you. Trust is required for all of those things. I understand that maybe they do not want the version of relationship we are trying to talk them into. Fair enough. Everybody has their own desires, and I respect that. Let’s just admit that something is going on there anyway. The manager and the team have a relationship, and vice versa. The team has a relationship with that manager. So let’s put the cards on the table. Do you trust them? Do you care about them? Could there be anybody else in that team and you would not care? If we go granular, there is a relationship. That person cares about some people, maybe less about others, trusts some people, respects others. So we need to go granular and understand what is actually there.
Dr. Alisa Whyte: That is powerful. I love what you said: you are having a relationship anyway, you just do not have one that is intentional for the task or assignment you have with this group or person. You get to choose. If you want results, you are going to have to invest. And I love the respect you have for the fact that someone might not want to do it the way we suggest, where intimacy is at a certain level, but there is still a level of trust required. You get to decide how you want to create that. Now, I want to bring in the embodiment piece for this segment we call Flip the Script. Can you walk us through how you work with clients and teams across the globe using your method and bringing in the embodiment piece?
Anna Lecat: I am a tango dancer. I have been dancing tango for more than 20 years, and I actually dance both roles. Tango is a traditional dance where usually men lead and women follow. It is a very intimate dance. It comes from Argentina. It is beautiful and fully improvised. The only way for two people to dance together is to be fully in the moment because every step depends on where the other person is stepping. I realized early on that this is a very clear metaphor for any connection, even for that manager and the people they manage. They tango. The way the manager says something, and then there is a response. Then the team does something, and there is a response from the manager. We are interdependent in our relationships. I also believe very much in embodiment. We do not just think. We are not only cognitive creatures. We have our body that comes with us everywhere. We feel, we sense, we have nonverbal cues that we give out to other people. How I speak, what I touch, whether I am tense or relaxed, whether I am interested in talking to you or welcome what you are saying, all of that matters. So I incorporate body language, somatic practices, and tango dancing in my workshops. Very often, when we start talking about conflicts and bring up real scenarios in the workshop, it gets emotional. People remember that they are not talking to their mother, their teenage kid, or that they cannot have a conversation with their boss. It is all very present. I noticed that every time we bring in the body, we start differently. I actually teach simple tango steps in corporate workshops. We learn how to lead and follow, how to walk by leading and following someone. It relaxes us. We remember that we are living, feeling creatures, and we get out of the hard emotions that conflicts bring up. Then we learn. For example, when somebody leads in tango, and we lead just by holding hands if people are comfortable, or without touch if they are not, I can lead you by walking toward you, and you see that I am walking toward you, so you step back from me. There is this amazing feeling that when I lead someone and they can feel what I am about to do and step back, I am fully responsible for another human being’s experience. That makes someone a much better leader. It teaches them to constantly pay attention to the people who follow them, to listen to them, watch them, feel them, and watch for nonverbal cues. Are they okay? Are they comfortable? Do they feel safe? Do they like where they are going? In tango, we often say that a good leader follows the follower. I watch where the follower steps, and then I walk there. A very good leader of a team does not just walk without paying attention to whether the team behind them is actually following. They are constantly checking: does this make sense to you? Do you understand our why? Do you agree with it? Are you aligned with it? We practice through the body, and then we understand how to do it better in life.
Dr. Alisa Whyte: So good. I am soaking it up because I am thinking about how enriched all those organizations are when you show up and bring this perspective. It is so needed. I think a lot of times we miss what is really happening in the world because we are in a space with so much information. We have so much access. We are getting information from everywhere all the time. I feel like we are in a unique space where a lot of people who used to be quiet are not quiet anymore. They are speaking on behalf of themselves. People are doing a great job of saying, “These are my boundaries.” But then we have these are my boundaries and these are my boundaries, so you be over there and I will be over here. They are doing the right thing by setting and stating their boundaries, but now, of course, it comes into conflict with someone else’s boundaries. In the workplace, a lot of productivity is lost. I tell organizations, believe it or not, if you are in the green with $10 million, you are probably missing at least another $10 million because your teams are not in harmony. Their communication, conflict levels, and systems are not in place. When you are in these organizations, what do leaders and organizations usually say they need? What do you see organizations and leaders suffering with a lot across the globe?
Anna Lecat: First of all, there are silos. Departments are not talking to each other. You have a sales department and a marketing department, and there is conflict. There are very few sales and marketing departments that collaborate peacefully. Then you have engineers and marketing, again, different language, different culture, different slang, different purpose, alignment, and values, even though they are all part of the same company. Translating between them and making sure each department understands why the others are there, what their purpose is, and what their language is, and vice versa, is already great for collaboration and moving things forward. There is also something I work with a lot: very successful employees who are very important for the company but do not know how to be collaborators. They are individual contributors and do not want to be part of the team, but they are brilliant. Sometimes they are CEOs of the companies, or chief innovation officers, or someone extremely important to the company, but the board does not know how to handle them. They do not know how to work within a team. So how do we translate them? How do we bridge between these people and the teams? It always takes a village. It takes a village to raise a child, and it takes a village to make anything successful. That is another one. Also, the simple thing of women and men working together and understanding each other. We do not even need to go into sales and marketing. If you have women and men on the same team, how do they work together? Even there, the language can be very different. Now, with AI being introduced into many companies, change management is also very important because people are nervous and scared. When they are nervous and scared, they start being more emotional, so more conflicts come up. We need the skills of conflicting so that we can understand what is going on. What are you nervous about? What are your fears? Then we can have those conversations.
Dr. Alisa Whyte: So good. You have brought all this work into a book, and I don’t care how advanced we get, I want an actual physical copy. Did you do an audiobook yet, or not yet?
Anna Lecat: No, it is only printed and Kindle.
Dr. Alisa Whyte: I got the Kindle, but I am going to get my physical copy because I still believe in books, no matter how advanced we get. You have brought as much as you can into a book about your teachings, principles, and guidance. So tell us why the book, and what the book actually helps solve for the world and for individuals in this space.
Anna Lecat: It is a very practical book about how to do this, how to fight kinder. I describe the principles I developed, the framework of Loving Conflict. I believe we love something that we are good at. We are not good at conflict because we have avoided it all our lives. Once we practice the skills and get better at it, we start loving it, and then we start looking for it everywhere. People who work with me and go through my workshops often become inconvenient at first. They practice in small conflicts. They tell the hairdresser they did not really like how it looked. They do much less people-pleasing and become much clearer about what they want. But they are also the same people who know how to repair well. They will say to their hairdresser what did not work, but with care for their heart, and they will be very clear: this is how you can do it better next time. I have a request for you. Can you please do it next time? So it is not just criticizing somebody. It is giving caring feedback and saying, this is how we can repair next time. All those scripts are in the book. I also talk a lot about listening, how to listen ready to change our mind, with very practical tools for how to get to that state that we do not really know how to be in. And I describe a lot about tango and how this metaphor works in life and conflict.
Dr. Alisa Whyte: I love it. Thank you for the book because it is so needed. It is a well-needed tool. I am going to highly recommend that everyone grab a copy. This is a very important conversation. Of course, I would love to have you back. For now, after all that you have done with your life, work, and journey, how do you describe success for yourself, Anna?
Anna Lecat: Success for me is staying connected with myself fully, staying in balance and alignment with myself first, before anything else. I have several businesses, three young kids, and I travel all over the world. As long as I stay fully connected with what I want, desire, need, and value at all times, and take good care of my body, that is one half of it. The other half is: am I connected with the people around me? Am I fully connected with people? Am I seeing them fully? I do not want to hurry through my life and build things without giving people around me the experience that they are fully seen and appreciated.
Dr. Alisa Whyte: I love that. I love that definition of success for you. Anna, we do Mindset Bites To Go, where I step away from the microphone and camera, and you have about 90 seconds. Someone is listening right now. They avoid conflict, they struggle with connection, and they do not feel heard themselves. What would you say to them? What do they need to understand starting today? What tools and tips can you give them?
Anna Lecat: I get it that you avoid conflict. I get it that it is scary and that it feels very uncomfortable. And you also know that in discomfort is where your growth lies. That is where transformation lies. So start small. Every time you feel uncomfortable starting a conversation, just pause, prepare, and stay present and curious. Remember to listen to somebody else ready to change your mind. If you are ready to change your mind, if you are not preparing your answer, you will be able to hear their full story, and then you will be able to be deliberate about how you build that relationship with them. Good luck and fight kindly.
Dr. Alisa Whyte: Fight kindly. I love that. I am going to quote you on it so often because fights are okay, but being empowered to do so, doing it kindly, and protecting not just yourself but the other person as well is important. Anna, how can we stay connected with you and, of course, get a copy of your book?
Anna Lecat: The book is Loving Conflict. I am on Instagram, LinkedIn, everywhere.
Dr. Alisa Whyte: We will have those links in the description. Anna, we hope you come back and have another conversation with us, especially after I am done reading the book. We would love to have you back when you are available because we know you have a busy schedule. Thank you so much for your wisdom and the gems you have given us today to empower us to fight kindly.
Anna Lecat: I loved talking to you. Thank you so much for having me.
You can find out more on Anna’s website at annalecat.com.