Jamila Barroa: Anna, thank you so much for joining us today. To start, where in the world are you today?
Anna Lecat: Thank you for having me. I’m in Paris, France.
Jamila Barroa: Anna, you write that a team isn’t truly inclusive if people feel they have to stay silent to belong. As women in tech, we often feel like we have to tread lightly to be liked. How can we start speaking our truth without feeling like we’re risking our place on the team?
Anna Lecat: What’s very important to remember is that truth is not aggression. I see truth as contribution, and it’s about how you tell your truth. If you start with, “I see something that may help us,” then it’s for us. It’s for the project. It’s for us to handle something together. It’s not seen as aggression anymore. And we need to remember that we do not earn trust by making ourselves smaller. If you stay silent long term, it costs you power because it costs you trust.
Jamila Barroa: Your book, Loving Conflict, came out earlier this year. Congratulations, by the way. For many of us, conflict triggers pure anxiety. What is one mental shift we can make to start seeing tension as useful information rather than a threat to our relationships?
Anna Lecat: We need to remember that anytime we see tension, there is data. We can treat it as data. It tells us that something matters to us, to the other person, or to both of us if it’s a one-on-one conflict. Whenever somebody gets angry, defensive, or quiet, we need to ask ourselves: what do they care about that has not been named here? What is it that matters to them? What is their value? And what is their fear? The danger, as I see it, is not in the disagreement. It’s not in the fighting. The danger is when people stop talking, when they stop telling the truth. Every conversation we don’t have costs us something. It costs us trust, relationships, possibilities, and innovation. When we remember that, every time we see tension, we can start asking, “What does this actually mean?” instead of simply being afraid of it.
Jamila Barroa: In tech, directness is highly valued, but when women are direct, they can sometimes be labeled aggressive. How can we strike that balance of being very clear and direct without losing warmth and care?
Anna Lecat: First of all, the fact that women are sometimes labeled aggressive is a cultural phenomenon that will hopefully change over time. Women should be fighting for what matters to them just as much as men are. The question is: how do we fight? My personal preference is to fight kindly. The formula I use is warmth in the intention and clarity in the words. Brené Brown said, “Clear is kind,” and I really believe that. I remember it every day. As long as my intention toward the other person is warm, as long as my aim is not to make myself right and them wrong or to prove them wrong, and I stay clear in my words, that is not aggression. Some people will still see a woman who stands up for what matters to her and label her aggressive. As long as your intention is warm and your words are clear, let’s not worry about those labels.
Jamila Barroa: Sometimes we stay silent because of imposter syndrome. We assume that if no one else is pointing out an issue, maybe we’re the ones who are wrong. How do we overcome that self-doubt and realize that our unsaid thought might actually save the project?
Anna Lecat: By practicing. We all grow up in cultures and families where we are often taught that avoiding conflict, or not saying what bothers us, is love. We learn it from our parents, our culture, and our surroundings. So at first, it’s difficult to start acting differently from how we were brought up or what we are used to. Practice in small steps, in situations that are not so high-stakes. When we go through conflict, when we face it and fight kindly, we often gain more trust. Our relationships become better. We become more successful at work and at home. The more often we do it, the more we practice, just like with cooking, exercise, or dancing, the better we get at it. And the better we get at it, the more we start to love it. We all experience imposter syndrome, and most of us have learned to avoid conflict. The only way around it is actually doing it, knowing that the skill will get better and that trust and relationships can grow through the process.
Jamila Barroa: In the startup world, everything moves at 100 miles an hour. It often feels like there’s no time for deep cultural check-ins. How can fast-paced tech teams build truth-telling into their busy routines without slowing down?
Anna Lecat: I work with many corporations in the tech industry, so I understand that we need to move fast. Clarity is actually short. Clarity doesn’t take more time. What takes more time is having meeting after meeting because we didn’t say things openly and clearly the first time. I’m not a proponent of adding another heavy meeting where everybody goes back and forth debating issues. In fact, I recommend 45-minute meetings on issues. What we need to do is add truth questions into the existing rhythm, or even shorten our meetings. The question that is always on my mind when I facilitate these meetings is: “What are we not saying that could slow us down?” What assumptions are we making? What is it that we’re not saying? Then we bring it up and say it clearly. And when we go through tension and understand each other, another very important question is: “Do we need repair, or are we complete?” Because when we fight, bad feelings can stay for a long time. Sometimes they need to be repaired.
Jamila Barroa: We often avoid calling out microaggressions or subtle exclusion because we don’t want to make things weird or seem overly sensitive. What is a gentle, caring way to address those uncomfortable moments in real time?
Anna Lecat: That’s a great question. Thank you for asking it. I don’t think gentle means vague, and I don’t think caring means silence. Whenever I experience microaggressions or subtle exclusion around me, toward me or toward other people, it’s very important for me to bring it up and not let it go unnoticed. When people do something once and it goes unnoticed and uncorrected, they may do it more and more often, and then it can escalate. So it’s about noticing and pausing every time, not allowing things to simply slip by. We often have thoughts like, “Let’s not bring it up. It’s okay. Forget about it. They didn’t mean it.” No. It’s about pausing anytime there is subtle discomfort and saying it, vocalizing it, while remembering to speak from your own experience and not assume bad intentions, or any intentions, from the other person. For example: “Hey, I want to pause here. That landed differently than I think you intended. I don’t know what you meant there, but this is how it made me feel. Can we pause here?” Or I often say, “Can we rewind? I don’t want to pass over this too quickly. Can we stop there? Can we pay attention to what was just said?”
Jamila Barroa: When communication breaks down or tension arises in a team, it can stall everything. What is your personal go-to strategy for problem-solving when you need to get a group back on track and into alignment?
Anna Lecat: I think facilitation of group conversations is very important. What I usually do with teams I work with is change the facilitator for every conversation so that everybody gets to facilitate. It’s not only the boss facilitating meetings or an invited facilitator. I teach people how to facilitate these meetings so they understand how difficult it is. Then, when they’re participants, they adjust their behavior. The team also begins to feel responsible for the outcome, so the responsibility doesn’t land on one person only. Everybody is empowered. Everybody has agency and responsibility for the outcome. Another very important strategy is keeping things calm. When we become emotionally flooded, we often say things we later regret. To prevent that, it’s important that the meeting happens in a place and at a time where people can calm their nervous systems. Phones are off the table. The environment is quiet. There are check-ins on how everybody is speaking and how everybody is feeling. In general, in my method, in my book, and in my workshops, it’s very much about the body: checking in with your body and looking at nonverbal cues in the group to sense how everybody is feeling, because that impacts how we talk, how we think, and how we make decisions.
Jamila Barroa: You’ve built companies across Ukraine, China, the United States, and France, which is an extraordinary global career. What is one major cultural difference you’ve noticed in how people handle, or avoid, difficult conversations across the globe?
Anna Lecat: There are definitely differences between cultures in how they handle conflict and whether they avoid it or engage with it. But overall, no matter where I work, and I now give workshops and speak to audiences across the Middle East, Africa, Canada, the United States, and Asia, the first thing I would say is that we’re all connected by the fact that we avoid conflict. We all want to love and be loved. We all want to be seen and to see other people. That is human. Then we have different habits depending on the culture. In France, for example, disagreement can be intellectual and almost enjoyable. People love having intellectual debates. They can become very passionate and spend hours debating politics, culture, and philosophy. What’s important to understand is that they will often be completely fine afterward. No matter how passionate or emotional the conversation becomes, it doesn’t necessarily affect the personal relationship. In China, there is much more silence, and communication can be more hierarchical. Depending on the hierarchy, strategy, and respect between members, the debate is going to be different, and there may be much more silence. In the United States, directness can be seen as efficient. It’s quite effective for me to show American companies how directness can lead to higher productivity, better creativity, and innovation. Then they become motivated to work on clarity and directness because it produces very clear results.
Jamila Barroa: In tech, hard technical skills get you through the door, but leadership requires a completely different toolkit. In your opinion, what are the top three soft skills that career-driven women should focus on developing?
Anna Lecat: First, I think that calling them “soft skills” can create a bias that these skills are somehow less important. They are as important as technical skills. And I wouldn’t single women out here. These skills are important for both men and women. Number one is self-regulation: knowing what we are feeling, how we are feeling, what upsets us, what disturbs us, when we are anxious, when we are calm, and how we calm ourselves down. How do we stay grounded when the room gets tense? That is a very important skill. It’s a practice. It’s a mindfulness practice that I think everybody who works in teams or spends time in a community needs. We need to know how to self-regulate not only because of how we behave ourselves, but also because when we meet people who are dysregulated, upset, sad, or angry, our ability to regulate ourselves can help them regulate as well. That can be incredibly useful at work. Another skill is curiosity: staying open-minded, curiosity about myself, my own biases, my history, and the story I’m creating about a situation. And also curiosity about other people, listening to others ready to change our mind. There is a particular quality of listening, and I write about it a lot in my book, where we listen in a way that we’re not simply looking for confirmation of what we already believe. We are looking for new information. That is very difficult to develop, and it absolutely needs to be developed. Number three is clear truth-telling. Can you say the real thing without attacking the other person?
Jamila Barroa: Having built companies across multiple continents, you’ve seen it all. What key advice would you give to women, and also men, who want to level up their careers or take the brave leap to start their own entrepreneurial journey?
Anna Lecat: The number one thing is: stop waiting to feel fully ready. You are ready, and you will learn on the job. Just start. Go for it.
Jamila Barroa: None of us are able to achieve success entirely on our own. Looking back at your incredible path, is there a particular mentor, ally, or person you’re deeply grateful to for helping you get to where you are today?
Anna Lecat: Definitely. I’ve always received help, and I’m very grateful to everybody who is still helping me and who helped me when I was very young. I started my first business in China when I was 19. At 19, I met my Chinese business partner, who was about 20 years older than me, and he really taught me how to do business in China. We are still business partners. We still share the businesses we built together. He understood that I dream big, that I’m willing to work very hard on my projects, both at work and in my personal life, and that I love to grow and learn. He was there to support me financially, legally, and culturally. Without him, I definitely wouldn’t have been able to build what I have.
Jamila Barroa: Hindsight is always 20/20, especially when it comes to the books that shape our thinking. What is the number one book you wish you had read before you started your career?
Anna Lecat: There is a book I read about 10 years ago that I wish I had read when I was much younger. It’s by Viktor Frankl, the Austrian psychiatrist, and it’s called Man’s Search for Meaning. The reason this book is so meaningful to me is that I didn’t understand early enough that meaning is not something life simply gives us. Meaning in life is something we search for, find, and then practice every day. Without a truly meaningful life, it’s very difficult to be in conflict situations. In general, it’s difficult to get up in the morning and go to work, but it becomes especially difficult when we are under pressure. I think this book would have helped me understand that much earlier.
Jamila Barroa: That’s a great choice. Let’s imagine you could meet anyone in the world for a private breakfast. Who would it be, and where would you choose to meet?
Anna Lecat: There is a French writer I really love, and I’ve read every book by her: Anaïs Nin. I would have loved to meet her for breakfast in a small café somewhere on a quiet street in Paris. She was very courageous at a time when women were not really speaking up and talking about women’s inner worlds. Nobody was taking women’s inner worlds seriously. She wrote books about it and spoke openly about it. I would ask her what gave her the courage to speak so openly about herself. She never edited herself. She was simply who she was, and she was honest about it. She refused to make her inner life smaller for men, for family, or for the establishment. I would have loved to meet her.
Jamila Barroa: We all have short phrases or mantras that get us through difficult days. Can you give us your favorite life lesson or quote?
Anna Lecat: The phrase I think about almost every day is actually from Anaïs Nin. She said, “We do not see things as they are. We see them as we are.” I love that. It means that I can change how I experience what is happening around me by changing myself.
Jamila Barroa: Aside from your book launch, are you working on any exciting new projects or initiatives right now that our community should keep on their radar?
Anna Lecat: I’m giving Loving Conflict workshops around the world, and it’s very exciting and fascinating. Group work fascinates me. I travel all over the world doing this work, and I’m also considering my next book.
Jamila Barroa: Wonderful. Congratulations, and thank you so much for joining us.
Anna Lecat: Thank you.
You can find out more on Anna’s website at annalecat.com.