Bruce Eckfeldt: Welcome, everyone. I’m Bruce Eckfeldt, your host and moderator. Today’s topic is how to translate cross-cultural conflict into competitive advantage. It’s an especially relevant conversation given the global dynamics we’re navigating right now.
Let me introduce our two guests. First, we have Wendy Pease, owner and president of Rapport International, a translation and interpretation services company that helps organizations communicate across more than 200 languages and cultures. She is also the author of two Amazon bestselling books, The Language of Global Marketing and The Secrets of Global Sales, and the host of The Global Marketing Show podcast, which is downloaded in more than 80 countries. Her work focuses on helping companies expand globally through culturally relevant written translation and spoken interpretation. Wendy, welcome.
Wendy Pease: Thank you. It’s great to be here, Bruce.
Bruce Eckfeldt: It’s great to have you. We also have Anna Lecat, a three-time global CEO, TEDx speaker, and Amazon bestselling author of Loving Conflict: Creating Collaboration Where Others See Division. Born in Ukraine and now living in Paris, Anna has spent more than 25 years leading multicultural teams across Ukraine, China, the United States, and Europe. She works in English, French, Mandarin, and Russian, helping founders, leaders, and leadership teams turn difficult conversations into clear decisions and stronger trust. Anna, welcome.
Anna Lecat: Thank you for having me.
Bruce Eckfeldt: Let’s begin with the idea of conflict because it’s a substantial term. People have many reactions and feelings around it. I’d like to understand how each of you thinks about conflict and how you approach it in your work, so we can establish some groundwork. Wendy, what is your working definition of conflict?
Wendy Pease: Anytime there is more than one person in the room, there is bound to be conflict because we have different perspectives, opinions, and understandings. There are so many opportunities for mixed messages.
I approach it from a cross-cultural standpoint. Once you add culture, and not only national culture but also company culture, generational culture, regional culture, and many others, there are even more ways for conflict to arise.
Bruce Eckfeldt: Anna, what is your perspective on conflict?
Anna Lecat: I absolutely agree with Wendy. I think conflict is a feature of every relationship, including our relationship with ourselves. I certainly experience many internal conflicts every day.
Most of us are brought up hating conflict, avoiding it, and staying silent. We don’t really develop the skills to engage with it and remain present in it. Some cultures are more direct in their communication and others are less direct, but there are very few cultures where people respond to conflict by saying, “Wonderful, bring it on.”
Whenever there is tension in our bodies, that is where conflict is.
Bruce Eckfeldt: I love the visceral side of that and the embodied nature of conflict.
I often work with leadership teams on strategy, execution, and team performance. Interestingly, I usually find myself trying to introduce more conflict because teams often don’t have enough conflict, or at least not enough productive conflict. People hold back. They don’t say what they truly want to say, and that becomes a serious limitation for the team because we aren’t hearing all the ideas, opinions, and differences.
Perhaps 85 percent of the time I’m trying to create more conflict, while the other 15 percent I’m redirecting existing conflict so it becomes productive. Conflict can be a powerful tool. Good leaders, teams, and companies understand that and learn how to use it strategically.
One of the things I’ve learned as a coach and leader is that conflict is not inherently bad. What defines whether it is productive is how you approach it and what you do with it.
I’d like to explore the cultural dimension because we’re dealing with two layers. We will always have internal, interpersonal, and team conflict, but culture adds another layer. Wendy, what differences have you noticed in how cultures approach or engage with conflict?
Wendy Pease: One of the researchers whose work I appreciate is Geert Hofstede. He developed six dimensions of national culture after conducting extensive research around the world. These dimensions identify areas where conflict can arise because of significant cultural differences.
One example is the difference between individualistic and collectivist cultures. Here in the United States, we are highly individualistic. We raise our hands, speak up, talk about our achievements, and take credit for what we have accomplished. When we are doing well, we also take ownership of our mistakes.
Other countries are more collectivist. Instead of focusing primarily on the individual, people consider the group. They may be very conscious of who the boss is, where they stand in relation to others in the room, and what will benefit the collective.
Imagine an individualistic person entering that environment, speaking up and doing what they believe is best for themselves. They may unintentionally step on the toes of everyone from the collectivist culture in the room. Without awareness of that difference, they may offend people and have a difficult time repairing the relationship. Conflict is almost inevitable in that situation.
And that is only one of the six dimensions.
Bruce Eckfeldt: Anna, when you consider cultural differences and conflict, are there any major patterns you’ve noticed?
Anna Lecat: There are definitely differences in communication between cultures. At the same time, there is something that unites all of us, regardless of our culture, skin color, or social background.
We all want to love and be loved. We want to see and be seen. We want to be known, understood, listened to, and respected. To have a relationship, whether business or personal, we need to build trust. That is true everywhere in the world. No matter where I work, speak, or work with people on these issues, this is something that unites us.
It is important to understand cultural codes, styles, and communication patterns. What Wendy said about individualistic and collectivist societies is very important. At the same time, we must remember that we are all human.
When we meet someone from another culture for the first time, we sometimes begin stereotyping. We may think, “This person is German, so they will be direct,” or, “This person is Japanese, so they will be reserved.” We start treating someone as a representative of their culture.
My work is about seeing the human being in front of you. Let them speak. Listen with a willingness to change your mind. Be open-minded and curious about them. They may come from a particular culture but have a completely different personal style.
Our communication and conflict styles are also shaped by childhood, our parents, what happened to us, whether we moved frequently or stayed in one place, and how much exposure we had to people from different backgrounds. There are many influences.
We need to stay open-minded, listen, observe the other person’s style, and remain aware of where we ourselves come from and what we are bringing to the table.
Bruce Eckfeldt: When I work with leaders, one of the things I do is help them understand how to approach these situations. What fundamental things should leaders think about before entering a conflict? What do they need to understand about themselves, and what should they look for when trying to understand another team, party, or culture? Wendy, what can leaders do to become more self-aware and establish a stronger foundation?
Wendy Pease: There is a lot to consider. First, I would suggest understanding Hofstede’s six cultural dimensions. You can visit Culture Factor, enter the countries you’re working with, and compare them. Before this conversation, I entered China, Ukraine, and the United States to see where Anna might have encountered the greatest cultural differences. Leaders can compare countries to identify potential areas of tension.
Second, recognize that working cross-culturally takes more time. These differences exist, and unless you take the time to understand them and learn how to work within them, you may create deeper conflicts that are much harder to resolve later.
Third, stay curious. As Anna mentioned, when your body reacts and you experience anxiety or tension, something inside you is saying, “This isn’t normal. This shouldn’t be happening.” You need to become curious about where that reaction is coming from and ask the other person what is happening.
I love beginning conversations from a place of curiosity because it lowers people’s defenses. Across the hundreds of podcast interviews I’ve done, the most consistent advice about working with others has been to stay curious.
Finally, remember Anna’s point that everyone is an individual. Don’t meet exclusively in groups. Take the time to build individual relationships and get to know the people you’re working with cross-culturally.
Bruce Eckfeldt: Anna, what do you suggest leaders do to become more aware and approach these situations effectively?
Anna Lecat: Everything Wendy said was brilliant, and I completely agree.
I started my first business in China when I was 18 or 19 years old. Our first client was Church’s Chicken, the fast-food franchise. We were helping the company find franchisees in China.
The first time their vice president of international development came to China, he met with wealthy Chinese individuals who were interested in purchasing the master franchise for the Chinese market. He was an American executive from Atlanta who had traveled all over the world but had never worked in China.
He sat down at the table. He didn’t speak Chinese, and the prospective franchisees didn’t speak English. I was brokering the deal, managing the process, and translating everything.
That was when I first realized the power I had. I was translating these individuals to each other, and I was adjusting everything they said.
The American executive would say something very confidently, with a great deal of certainty and emotion. His Chinese counterpart would recognize the certainty and emotion, but I would then spend many sentences explaining the context and background behind what he had said. I would do the same in the opposite direction.
That experience showed me the importance of translation and the value of understanding the background, culture, language, and all the subtleties involved. Trust exists in those subtleties.
What I remember most about this American executive, however, is how authentic he was. Even though he had traveled all over the world, he did not adjust his style. He was absolutely certain that his chicken was the best chicken in the world.
While I was trying to translate him, soften his message, and occasionally apologize for him, what ultimately sold the deal was his authenticity. We sold the franchise, and the partnership worked.
Later, I asked the Chinese team why they had decided to proceed. They told me, “It was him. We didn’t understand what he was saying, but we understood his body language. He was completely himself. He was Church’s Chicken.”
Especially when we are sitting across the table from someone who is not from our culture, we need to remain ourselves, stay grounded in our values, and remember why we are there. When language is not enough, people still understand what we stand for. That can be read.
Just two weeks ago, I returned from another trip to China with a group of American executives. I kept reminding them, “Even when Chinese people don’t understand what you are saying, they are reading you all the time. They are reading your facial expressions, how you walk, and how you look at them.”
All of that is important. Don’t forget that you have a body. Leaders need to remember that their bodies are being seen and felt at all times.
Are you calm? Are you confident? Are you trustworthy? Do you trust them? When problems arise, how do you respond?
People feel all of this, even when they don’t understand the words you are saying.
Bruce Eckfeldt: I love that. It creates a framework where you show up as 100 percent yourself and allow the other person to show up as 100 percent themselves. If both parties can do that, you create a platform for genuine communication and understanding.
The challenge is that people often start adjusting themselves. They try to figure out how they need to transform or contort themselves to fit the situation, which can become a real problem.
Wendy Pease: I see some potential conflict there.
I agree with the importance of authenticity, but I have seen many examples, both in my work and in stories shared on my podcast, where people brought their full selves into a situation and offended others because they didn’t understand what could be offensive in the other culture. They then had to do a great deal of work to recover.
One example involved a young American manager who joined a manufacturing company in the United States. There were differences in generation, background, and culture. This person was managing a group of employees who had been at the company for a long time. They were older, they were Black, and this was in the southern United States.
The young white manager came in and began calling everyone by their first names. The employees didn’t like it. They were older than the manager and expected a particular form of respect. They wanted to be addressed as Mr. or Mrs.
I love this example because it happened entirely within the United States. When a cultural consultant came in and investigated what was happening, they discovered that this seemingly simple mistake had created significant repercussions.
Bruce Eckfeldt: What is the alternative? As a leader, how do you discover or uncover those expectations before entering a situation like that?
Wendy Pease: You have to understand that you can’t simply bring your authentic self into a situation without considering the other person.
Have you heard of the Golden Rule?
Bruce Eckfeldt: I’ve heard several versions. What is yours?
Wendy Pease: The traditional version is, “Treat other people as you would like them to treat you.”
In global and cross-cultural relationships, it should be, “Treat other people how they want to be treated.”
You can’t assume that being your authentic self will automatically be acceptable. You must take the time to understand how the other person wants to be treated and how you may need to adapt your behavior. Both people need to meet in the middle.
I agree with Anna that you have to build trust, be honest, and remain aware of your body language. You should also educate yourself before entering another culture. Is showing the bottom of your foot offensive? Can you touch the top of a child’s head? Should you shake hands, bow, or avoid physical contact? How should you walk? What are the expectations around eating?
There are many subtle things that can cause problems. Spending a little time learning about them beforehand can prevent much larger problems later.
Anna Lecat: I love conflict, so for me, the situation you described at the American factory has tremendous potential for building trust.
The conflict has already been introduced. The important question is: how did they repair it?
How did the manager explain why they were calling people by their first names? If this behavior was directly connected to the manager’s values, could they honestly and openly explain why it mattered to them?
Then they could ask the employees, “What does this mean to you? Why is being addressed as Mr. or Mrs. important?”
If they listen to each other and repair the rupture well, trust will be built through that rupture.
I completely agree that it is important to do your homework, prepare, observe, and slow down. But I don’t think cultural tension or misunderstanding is necessarily a problem, provided that we remain present and repair the relationship.
That memory can eventually become a story or even a joke that connects people: “Do you remember the first time we met and what you did?”
We don’t need to be afraid of those moments. Yes, we should research. Yes, we should learn about others. But we can also delight in the mistakes we make, as long as we repair them, take responsibility for what we have done, explain what matters to us, and listen to the other person.
That process builds the trust we need in order to collaborate.
Wendy Pease: That is why your work is so important. If you can have those conversations early and prevent the situation from escalating into something that can no longer be resolved, that matters.
I agree that if people can have an open conversation, listen, and remain curious, they can build a stronger relationship.
Bruce Eckfeldt: There are two ideas in that exchange that I’d like to explore. One is repair, which we’ll return to. The other is communicating your “why.”
When you present something or take action, explain why you are doing it. Explain why you want to have the conversation or why you prefer to approach something in a particular way. Don’t present it as, “This is simply the way we’re doing it.” Instead, say, “This is my preference, and this is why I prefer it.”
That helps create vulnerability in the conversation. You’re saying, “I understand that you may want to approach this differently. I’m not going to suppress myself, but I will give you the information you need to understand where I’m coming from. Then you can tell me how we can work together appropriately.”
I consider that one of the highest-level leadership skills. Anna, what have you observed about how effective communicators and leaders navigate these situations while remaining authentic and creating the necessary context for other people?
Anna Lecat: Bruce, I completely agree with what you said, and I don’t think we talk about it enough.
Knowing your “why” is the number-one leadership skill. First, you need to understand why you are here and what truly matters to you. What is your red line? What boundary will you not cross? Who are you?
You need to know that with absolute clarity and communicate it upfront.
That takes practice. It is a skill, and it is not something most of us are taught to do. That is why we need great coaches who help people find their “why,” verbalize it, memorize it, practice it, and say it often.
My practice is deeply embodied, so I always remember that I bring my body with me everywhere.
How do we know whether something is truly our “why” or a genuine value? It is often difficult for us to say. We become vulnerable. Our voice may start shaking. We may feel butterflies in our stomach. It feels uncomfortable.
If you are completely comfortable talking about what you care about, you may not have reached the deepest level yet. Dig deeper until you find the place where you almost want to cry, where you discover something you cannot live without, something without which your life would lose its meaning.
When we lead from that place and communicate it consistently to our teams, colleagues, and partners, we are communicating our authentic selves.
I don’t believe that can truly be offensive because it connects us through our deepest desires, which are remarkably similar across cultures.
Bruce Eckfeldt: Would you share your “why” with us and give us an example?
Anna Lecat: I would love to. Thank you for asking.
My “why” is that I want everyone to feel seen. Growing up, I did not fully experience being seen. I was Jewish in Ukraine, and we were not completely accepted. I didn’t feel that I was seen in my full splendor.
Now, every time I meet someone new, I want that person to feel truly seen, as though they are standing on a stage with all the lights focused on them and there is no shame in anything.
I believe everything about each person is beautiful. That is why I do everything I do.
Connection comes from there because I can only offer this to another person when we are connected and trust exists between us.
Wendy Pease: Maybe that is why I like you so much.
My “why” is connecting people across cultures and languages. At a deeper level, my family moved frequently when I was a child, so long-term connections were more difficult for me. Connection became very important, and I want to help people make sure they remain connected.
Bruce, what is yours?
Bruce Eckfeldt: Most of the work I do involves helping people understand what they truly want.
Whether I’m helping a leader clarify what they want from their business or working with a founder who is preparing for an exit, the fundamental question is the same: Why do you want to exit? What will it give you? Where are you going next? What will it enable you to do?
I’ve found that once leaders understand what they truly want, we can figure out all kinds of strategies and plans. We can accomplish remarkable things. The challenge usually arises when they haven’t decided what they actually want.
At the end of the day, my work is about helping founders, leaders, and their teams identify what they truly want. Then we can determine how to get there.
I have many strategies for achieving things, but they don’t help if you don’t know what you want. It’s like Alice in Wonderland: if you don’t know where you’re going, any path will get you there. That clarity is fundamental for me.
Wendy Pease: I hadn’t planned on having this conversation, but it was fascinating.
Bruce Eckfeldt: It was great. At the end of the day, this is about understanding other people, appreciating them, and remaining curious and aware. But fundamentally, you have to begin by doing that work with yourself.
You have to become clear about yourself first. You can only reach the level of communication with others that you have already reached internally.
Before we finish, I want to make sure people know how to contact each of you. Anna, where can people learn more about you and your work?
Anna Lecat: Everything is in my book, Loving Conflict. My website is AnnaLecat.com. Lecat, like “the cat.”
Bruce Eckfeldt: Wendy, where can people learn more about your work?
Wendy Pease: You can find either of my books on Amazon or wherever books are sold online. The best place to learn more about our work is RapportTranslations.com. Rapport is the French word, in honor of the work we do.
I’m also very active on LinkedIn, so I would love to connect with anyone who wants to reach out.
Bruce Eckfeldt: You can find me at BruceEckfeldt.com, and I’m also very active on LinkedIn.
Wendy and Anna, thank you so much for taking the time today. It has been an absolute pleasure.
Anna Lecat: Thank you so much.
Wendy Pease: Thank you.
You can find out more on Anna’s website at annalecat.com.